CRW: Thought we'd have a little Sunday afternoon chat with you mother kind of like Franklin Roosevelt used to have his Fireside Chats

FCW: Oh I see

CRW: So now you are on candid camera like we should happy day

FCW: Thank you it's very nice

CRW: Talk about your life we may have some questions for sure. 

ESW: I didn't have prepared but uh 

ESW: so

CRW: did you know that today is Elaine’s 55th birthday? 

FCW: today?

CRW: tomorrow

FCW: oh dear

CRW: she's getting up there.

FCW: she sure is. you'd never know she's 55. she acts like she's 16 and looks it.

CRW: she looks like she’s about 12

FCW: she does

FCW: Well, I’d say 16

CRW: but she's lived a good life and it shows

FCW: yeah it does

CRW: yours does too

ESW: why don't have your mother tell us what she's been up to lately. What she did for last week, for example. Did she have class?

FCW: yes I had my sewing club. Winnie made the cake, the big chocolate cake. We all had a piece and loved it.

FCW: We talked about old times we talked about my father all about him and when we lived on 32 North Temple where the Office building is now. That was on North Main.

ESW: Why don't you zoom in on that?

FCW: This is the home on North Main, that my father was a North Temple he was president of the Utah Power and Light and my mother told many times how worried she was because when the lights were out in salt lake he'd go right up to Bear Lake and that's where the Power Plant was in Bear Lake. He had a horse, by the name of Rob Boy. He'd go in a cart. MOther was so worried. I do remember. Mother was so worried. Because he'd go up there when the lights were out in salt Lake. He'd go right up there and uh fix it. And do something about it. You know. And she worried about that a lot.

FCW: and then we uh, when we moved up in our new home - He built this home on North Main. This is the home on North Main. And we uh, we lived there for many years. And I met Bert after we lived there. And uh. I don't know what else? What do you want to know? This is where the Deseret Gym is now. 149 North Main. 

CRW: Tell us about when you used to carry molasses over to the Tithing Office.

FCW: Oh yes, we lived right close to the you know uh between thru the block is the tithing office. And I remember it because it had a big boardwalk going into it. And there was a railing that they'd tie their horses on when they'd come in I used to go there mother's shopping. I go into the tithing office and do her shopping. Get all her things you know. But I never paid any money for it. She'd pay once a month or something like that I don't know why I can't remember of ever taking any money. I’d go over and get the groceries and things and I'd take a pail and get molasses and they'd have a big thing of molasses and I'd get all kinds of things like that and honey. 

ESW: people paid their tithing with goods and you'd go and get goods many in exchange for something you….

FCW: No, I didn't. I didn't take anything. 

CRW: They would they pay their tithing in goods in kind. 

FCW: Yeah, that's the way it was.

CRW: Wasnt the tithing office where the Hotel Utah is?

FCW: Yeah, right where this side of the Hotel Utah. Right where the big garden is. Yeah, that's where it was. And, I'd go over there all the time. It was a great place big store, really the tithing office. I remember it just as well as anything.

ESW: huh

CRW: how old were you?

FCW: I'd say I was about 10 or 12, about that age. But, I remember it very well.

FCW: and then after we father built this home on North Main. This home here. And uh, we were thrilled with that. Because it was so beautiful and it was done beautifully. The in the living room they had a crystal chandelier. And, I brought it home. I wanted that when Serge sold the house. I wanted that. I took that chandelier out. And I brought it home and it wall went to pieces. It was crystal. And, it just didn't. It was so old you see. It was old when we got it. That was years and years ago. And it so I couldn't make anything out of it. Anyway, I made little lamp thing that I use. There wasn't much left of it. 

CRW: I remember the wood in the front hall

FCW: yes the wood in the front hall. It looked like it was carved, but it wasn't. Pieces of the material was put on it you know design on it. It was beautiful. And the fireplace was there. That was christmas time that’s the place we'd decorate more than anyplace. We’d decorate that you know. I had 

CRW: wasn't there a window seat kind of thing.

FCW: yes there were window seats on either side of the fireplace. Then we had a big deer, in the center of it. A great big deer head. 

CRW: I remember that.

ESW: you were more the younger?

FCW:I was the baby of the family you see.

CRW: do you want to bring that picture over that's right over there behind you? On the wall there? Maybe mother couldn't point out who those people are there in the picture. Her family members there.

FCW: this is my uh, that's dusty, my brother Serge (upper left), My brother Leo (2nd from top-right), he was the oldest, now he lived in Logan. He uh, he, father had a store in Logan. He and ran that store. He married 
(PAUSE)

CRW: now here's the picture of mother’s family. Mother would start over again? And explain

FCW: yes.

FCW. This is the oldest boy. That's Leo. And, lived in Logan. He ran the store that my father bought in Logan. He married Laura Saunders. Next to him, is my sister Rae. She was the next in line. And she married Clayton Smith. And, this is Serge. He married Ruby Erskine. And, this is Don, he married By Denholder.

FCW: This is my sister Jean. She had a heart condition. She had leakage of the heart. She died when she was 17 years old. See the way she's sitting. She just couldn't sit up straighter. 

This is my brother Pete and died when he was about 17 years old. He had a tooth ache. And he went to the hospital. And he uh, he died within 3 days. Because you see they didn't have penicillin in those days. Or he could have been saved. But, that tooth ache it just you know. That's me. (right bottom).

CRW: How old are you then?

FCW: Well I was about 12 there then I think. 

ESW: now you're the only one living all of these. So there were 7 children.

FCW:There were 8 really. My baby sister died. There were 8 children. 

CRW: Aunt Rae always said you were the older sister. 

FCW: fox furs on, she'd get her white fox furs on. Mother and Father didn't want her to go with this Malcolm Kaiser, because he was kind wild. He came her from the east you know. And, she went with him. And she'd meet him down at the skating rink and they'd roller skate. And, i would she would take me because she didn't want to be alone you know. So she'd take me to sorta so mother and father would worry about Malcolm. She'd roller skate in those while furs. I'll never forget it as long as I live. It was a scream you know. You know these white fox furs. Dressed up to beat the bandid. This Malcolm Kaiser was handsome. He was from New York you know. He was just handsome. And he was crazy about her. And he uh, he and then she met Clayton Smith. And, married him. And they moved down to Las Vegas. They had a hotel down there.  And uh, they lived down there for awhile.

CRW: they went to Fresno, first. 

FCW. That's when I took Clayt when he was a baby. He was sick. The doctors

ESW that's the picture of him on the beach with little bucket.

FCW: he was sick and the doctor the doctor, I can't remember his name, Doctor he uh, he said you better get him to out of Salt Lake and get him down where it's warm. So we went down to Fresno. We fed him on Cream of Wheat. The doctor down there said to give him this cream of wheat. And he just gained constantly. He just got fat and he was just little tubby as could be. He was just the cutest thing you've ever seen. And we came I stayed down there about a month. We had a good time you know. And they had this big hotel there. You know. And we stayed there and had a good time. And, uh, I came home and we that's when we lived up on 7th and L Street. What? 

CRW: you first lived on 7th and L.

FCW: I mean 7th and L.

CRW: How come you out lived everybody?

FCW: I don't know. I don't know why, but I did. 

CRW: good nature

FCW: oh yeah! Laughter. But here I am still alive and I'm 900 years old to date. 

CRW: they say that stress is the hardest thing on you. And you just

FCW: What?

CRW: Stress is the hardest thing on you, and you don't have any stress. That's how you did it?

FCW: Yeah.

ESW: or else you how to handle it.

FCW: well that's our family. Thank you. 

ESW: I'll hang it back on the wall.

CRW: a joint picture here of the two of you. you good looking girls sitting together here.  

FCW: this is our beauty you know. She really is. 

CRW: she gets mistaken for Marie Osmond all the time. 

ESW that's been a couple of years.

FCW: you do! You remind me of Marie too.

CRW: Marie Osmond as I live and breath.

FCW: she's not as dumb as Marie.

Laughter

FCW: No

CRW: She's fun

ESW: I think this will really be nice. Uh, I don't know if you want to get any pictures of your mother's living room here. Now the sun's kind of gone down.

CRW: I think we'll get 'em when the suns up and the color will be better. But, right for now.

ESW: is it getting too dark?

CRW: well you don't get the rich color when it's dark. Why don't you just come over here in a second? 

ESW: so you can get in the picture? That would be nice.

CRW: one of each of us here.

CRW: so there we are.

FCW: so here is my youngest son that I love dearly. 

CRW: how you doing today?

FCW: well pretty good. Yes sir. I feel pretty good. I feel a little old and shakey. But outside of that I feel fine.

CRW: how old are you today?

FCW: I am 88.

CRW: 88, isn't that amazing?

FCW: yes it is amazing, but I've had so much love from you and Dick and Adele and Doug and I've had so much love. That's what’s kept me alive and happy is the love that you give me and the way you treat me and the things you do for me. 

CRW: We'll you've had a very successful life. Anyone would be thrilled to have a life like you've had.

FCW: You think? Well? I hope. But, uh, 

CRW: I do

FCW: I've been very lucky. It's been a wonderful life really when I look back when Bert was alive what fun we had and what a good time we always had we always had. We always had Christmas here. And all the children all the grandchildren. It was great. We had lots of fun in this house. 

CRW: and you wouldn't have missed for anything.

FCW: no I wouldn't. Not a bit.

CRW: Good.

CREW: well, we'll just fade out 'til the next time here.

FCW: we'll fade away

CRW: we'll go watch ourselves on television.

Laughter. 

 

On a hot summer day in 1982, Clayt (CCW) and Denise brought their cassette* tape recorder to their Grandmother Florence's house on 489 B. Street. Of course Grandma Flossie had prepared delicious dessert's and pies. Clayt's father, Clayton Ray Williams (CRW), and his wife, Elaine (ESW), were also in attendance. The transcript contains several times when those in attendance were talking at the same time. We've done our best to transcribe it accurately. However, if there is a question, please refer to the actual recordings. 

 *Cassette recorders contained 45 minutes per side. This results in two separate digital files of this interview.

Text of Clayt and Denise Interview with FCW

CCW: We're here. We are with Nanny sitting around the table and we're going to we wantedto kind of just we're going to have a talk about life and Nanny is going to tell us some stories of the past and your bring back the memories of the past. And so that's not much of an introduction.

FCW: But let's just go through the block and I used to go and get things from others who just walked through the block to the tithing office.

CCW: Is that right?

FCW: And then we moved up on North Main and then I met Burt when I was young, you know, and I was about to about 18 when I first met Burt. Then we started to go together He was called on his mission and he went to Lyon France.

FCW: And he contracted asthma mmm and he was very sick. The sent him down to Paris to see if they could get any doctor to help him, but they couldn't. He was only gone on his mission a year. He had to come home. He was so thin and he looked so terrible. He thought I wouldn't love him anymore. But I did. We got married very soon after that and then we had Adele and Dick.

CCW: and then what about San Diego?

FCW: Oh, yes. I'll tell you about San Diego. Bert was in charge of the Utah building in San Diego at the fair.

CRW: World's Fair.

FCW: Yes, the world fair. He was in charge of the Utah building and it was all fixed with wheat on the walls, you know, and then they had a little apartment fixed for us upstairs on the balcony.

CCW: Hmm

FCW: and it was very nice or it's a bathroom. There was a just a regular apartment.

CRW: Weren't you just barely married?

FCW: Yeah. So that's where we went. The first time. We were in San Francisco then we went to San Diego.

CCW: How did Grandpa get involved in the World's Fair?

FCW: Grandpa had gotten involved in the World's Fair, well, because he worked for the State Auditor's office and somehow they asked him to do that. So we went down there and we had it was really kind of fun because we had this cute apartment up in the building, you know.

FCW: and the wheat was beautiful designs of Wheat and all kinds of fruit, you know, like a fair is as you know, and

CCW and Denise: uh-huh

FCW: So Burt, we got some mad because of our rats down that we could you know, if they were not up for a we were but there was some rats and he would take some apples with all kinds of fruit and throw them at those rats and that right.

Laughter

FCW: Then we stayed there because he was still San Francisco to a special doctor then we came home and we stay with mother for about a year.

CCW: with your mother.

FCW: With my mother, on North Main. Will you leave the door open? It sure is hot.

CRW: Then you moved in with your mother was where the Desert Gym is right now.

FCW: Yes, that's it. That's where the Desert Gym is right now. 149 North Main.

CRW: That was your second home? Wasn't it?

FCW: Yes, that's it. That's where the Desert Gym is right now. 149 North Main.

CRW: Tell us about going to the Tithing office. Were you paying tithing in kind or what were you doing?

FCW: The tithing office, was a big store. The Tithing Office, they had all of all kinds of things like that.

CCW: Well, uh, can you tell us a little about your parents? Like, well, what did your dad do?

FCW: well, my dad was manager of the Utah Power and Light, at one time.

CCW: Oh Really?

FCW: About that time he started to drink. It really was a disease.

CCW: Uh-huh

FCW: I guess he drank a little bit, you know, and he had to quit. So I was at the LDS High School and I had they took me out of school. I went to school in Los Angeles and they took my dad to sanitariums one in the in Los Angeles and one in Oregon Portland, Oregon. So two years of my schooling was that way, he was away.

CCW: Oh, I see.

FCW: And then we came home and well, that's of course that's before I was married.

CCW: Oh, I see.

FCW: But then after I was married, we moved up on the Barton Apartments off by the Capital. K, Bert was working in the state auditor's office then. And it was very handy for him to come home for lunch, and it was, you know, we had a cute little apartment up there. That's when Adele was born, of course. Dick, he was born down at Mother's. I was with mother.

CCW: I see

FCW: And then we moved to....along First South. We had lived in an apartment on First South and 60 East. We lived there for a while and then with Grandpa Williams.

FCW: One day he said, "I'd like to have you come and I'd like to show you something."

FCW: And he took us up on L Street and said, "This is the place. I'm going to build your home." And he built Rex's and Clare's home up there.

CCW: Is that right? He bought it? And gave it to them?

FCW: Oh, he just bought it for him.

FCW: Speaking of used to sing quite a bit, you know, I did. I bet you don't know that huh?

CCW: I don't know that, huh?

FCW: We had these operas that had the young girls in mini operas in the 1890s. I was one of the eight people in it. The Salt Lake Theater had one, you know and just over just a little you know, little sort of the tunes that she made up. You know, she was he wrote music That's a crazy thing to do to me. Yes, maybe we find in church. Yeah, we do.

FCW: In our house on L Street, Aunt Helen and I started taking singing lessons. And I start to practice and I'm here (motions with her hands)

FCW: And, Clare, your dad's sister, their oldes built the house right next to ours. So we had four family homes right next to each other. Anyway, and I'd start to do the scales. Aunt Helen would sing the scales back! It was a hoot. I had to stop the lessons because I got pregnant.

CRW: The kids grew up in the bedroom and lived there till I was 12.

CCW: Oh really?

CRW: Tell them about Holiday Park

FCW: We bought the first home up there and Bert was crazy about it, and he loved fishing. So so he bought this house. And the cabin and I would have loved and stay six weeks at a time when come down the whole summer.

FCW: Hmm, I wouldn't even come down. I loved it and come up right here on the weekends or something come up with be loaded absolutely loaded with groceries and things are really also you can hanging out of the back. He would come up often. It seems like on Thursday night and then have Friday Saturday and Sunday.

CCW: Yeah, I remember that you did that. What kind of car was he driving up? I mean, was it like a Buick after that? Yeah, but it was a Chevy but like a sedan or and the Chevrolet was a coupe with a rumble seat. That was the joy of all of our kids lives Rumble seats for just the greatest because you were sitting outside and looking backwards know you look forward. Oh just open like this and then

FCW: You can sit through a across now. Who are we cutting the ribs against the metal? Yeah, but the little tabs on the fender to get up and into the rumble seat. And one thing that I don't want to talk a lot of distance.

CRW: We had we have the first radio in a car that anybody in the neighborhood had is that my and it was in our Buick and it was a big long thing like this that you put on the front seat over it and you put it on the front seat next to the passengers know whenever I want to read you on the radio.

CCW: Was it batteries or what? Did you tie it into the car ride into the generate the volts?

CRW: Doug and I would take dinners to Grandma Campbell. Oh, and that car was fun! But I was gonna ask my mother if she could remember because he's told me about Grandpa Campbell.

FCW: Grandpa Campbell who went, I think, in the southern states and then he served two missions. Give me, yeah and you know,

CRW: remember where he went after he was sick; didn't he go on a mission after that and then work for the church?

FCW: He had a problem. It was really sad. Because he was such a bright man and had a.... you know.

FCW: That Utah Power and Light was most wonderful for him. Hmm. It's going

CCW: Well, I'm, did Grandpa, my grandpa. Did he go to the University of Utah?

FCW: Yes.

CCW: Did he get his degree there? And then work for the auditor's office?

FCW: I mean is that I don't know exactly what it was. Yeah. Yeah after he came home from his mission.

FCW: He graduated in three years from the University it was really fast. His brother, Bert's brother, he coached at AC and West High. And then he worked for the Federal government physical fitness, but Dad worked for as Governor spry secretary after he graduated. You know, Secretary for the Governor of the State.

FCW: Then he went into business for himself with his brother-in-law.

CCW: What are some fun things that you do as a family and I you a tradition that you kind of do is you make that comment those caramels and everybody just when they think of you. Did you have a Christmas tree?

FCW: always had a Christmas tree and you did you have balls like you gave to us for Christmas trees, you know, that is the most....

CCW: Those the Christmas balls that you made us are known. I've never seen them anywhere else and they just make the tree. So beautiful that I mean to beautiful trees it fills it out and just makes everything just Sparkle without seeming gaudy or anything else.

FCW: I've made a million of them.

FCW: Under the Christmas tree down the matter really made in the big time of the year and we're extremely generous and made it just a very festive occasion with a lot of gifts and lot of decorations and we gave a meet some bongs and lost them and they were war bonds and it couldn't find them and here we did lower than that was our Xmas, you know, when we got older that I gave us more bonds and at the end of Christmas day they were gone. They're missing. And it's like a stock certificate if you don't have it, there's no recovery and so we went downstairs and cleaned out all of the rubbish. We had an incinerator that we burned trash. We even sorted through all of the burn stuff to see if there's any random House.

CCW: Did you find them?

FCW: No

CRW: How about your early days with the primary and then the Relief Society?

FCW: Yes, I am, I was on the State Board for years. Of primary first, you know, the first and second grade. I taught them to make plates and to work on things that I'd make for them, you know to show them different things to do.

FCW: I taught the teachers so she could stick felt characters to the board.

CRW: Then I remember these boards that were sewn with all these slots in them and she would make things to create a scene. It was so artistic. Each month hada new scene that was sent to the teachers and then later the Relief Society, the General Relief Society used to get her to decorate over there. She's pictured in a lot of those Relief Society magazines.

FCW: and there are demonstrations of lots of that's been my hobby sort of, you know decorating weddings.

CRW: Whenever anybody have a wedding in town and come to mother, I mean, you know once a week like does that right?

FCW: Absolutely, if you could give me a few ideas, but you go out to the wedding and take over.

CRW: The Caterers.

CCW: Oh, is that right?

CRW: Her kids were also her working girls.

CRW: And the this one Maxime said well:

The days are all right but the nights are hard. I missed my family.

CCW: Where did they stay?

CRW: They lived in the basement in a nice room there but they were always members of the family, you know, they weren't like a maid, that I would be just such another, like Happy.

FCW: Yeah, they became lifelong friends.

CRW: I'll say he's made that used to be with us or still you know, mother's dear friends and always around just like her own their own kids. Yeah, just like her children.

CCW: But I'm trying to visualize how they slept at the cabin with you and Doug and Dick.
--------------------
CRW: Yeah, we slept in the bunk house. and we couldn't find any terrified if they weren't here and he him so Adele I took a day when we went down the canyon. Oh did he go and he was even in the Hardys and went to bed and went sound asleep. They're camped and we thought he'd gone down the canyon. Yeah, we will all the way to polebridge it was dark and it was terrifying but he got it the next morning.

We need to go out on the front porch there and call him sing their names didn't you from the front part?

FCW: Yes.

Well, how about Fourth of July?

FCW: I put holiday park or the 24th. Well, we almost have big celebration sparklers Galore.

CCW: Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I remember my only real memory of way back then was on the fourth of July. I remember everybody was there and you bought us all little those little hammers that you hit and a cap explodes in an ox a little feathered thing up in the air and it comes down but I remember just kind of Milling around in the cabin when everyone was there on the 24th of July and it was fine. We've had some great times up there.

CRW: Well, tell him about the scones.

CCW: It's gone didn't we do that before but before you start?

CCW:Oh, yes, we are that allowed to do that on the tape used to make the scones and they all read twice a week up there. Oh really, but I would have covered with dollar make us make these, you know different shapes of scones and everything and then I cook them in the whole Canyon would come up and I'll bet half the people there commented about remembering your scones. These are older people that were here remember

CRW: When we go out and sit in the yard and wait for our turn to have a scone a great time, it was wonderful for the children because they you know the fishing and all they all will do how to fish. They all came.

CCW: They were the best and did they did you have to have some horses at some time?

FCW: Yes. We did. We had a horse named.... Well every year at the beginning of the year. Mig was our first horse and every year with rent a horse in Oakley for the whole summer, for three months. And one of us had to ride the horse 20 miles from Oakley to Holiday Park to begin the summer. We rented a different one each summer. And I think we had Mig several Summers. He was the first one. I remember now. That's it. We rode him everywhere.

CRW: Yeah, right.

CCW: How about a little bit about Grandpa? Can you tell us well, what you know?

FCW: He was on that French Mission in Lyon France. The climate was so terrible there that he contracted asthma and he's had it to his dying day. I remember the last time he got so sick and he was home for oh, I don't know five or six months. He was home without Mike or at the office at all. At the end he they gave him a shot of this adrenaline, you know, and that would relieve him.

FCW: So I'd come downstairs and phone the doctor would let him know and I phoned the doctor and the doctor would come and give him a shot and then he could sleep the rest of you know, a little while but he was sick. It's incredible how he carried on his business and everything; it is beyond me. I don't know how I ever did it.

CCW: Your courtship?

FCW: Well, that's another story. Oh, I met him at LDS dance Diageous Imodium across from North Temple or the Odeon on the corner. They called it the Odeon and that's because in the Huayra.

FCW: That's funny. I can't remember. Oh, I I think at the LDS somehow, you know now the earliest is the high school, right?

CCW: Yeah, but was he the same age as you were?

FCW: No, he's two years older.

FCW: And he lived out on 520 East Second South.

CRW: So he was just about seven blocks from where she lived. But when Adele was born, you see, we were the mother and we would take her with her.

FCW: Burt would fix up a sleigh with a basket on it and we walk up every Sunday to Grandma Williams.

CRW: Every Sunday we had a delicious dinner-- every Sunday. We'd go up and take you know, that's another tradition that you might tell about is Grandma Williams Thanksgiving and Christmas dinners.

FCW: Oh, yes about 52 dinner tables in the living room in the sunroom and huge number of people every Thanksgiving every Christmas. She invited everybody somehow we all worked our schedules so that we didn't, or it didn't seem like we were missing many people. She made the greatest Mince pie I've ever eaten and pickles....

CRW: you remember those pickles and her husband, Grandpa Williams was was Bishop for about 20 years or more of the 12th or 13th ward, which is down by 1st South and second. That's where I went to lots of dances of the twelve, thirteen, fourteen ,twelve thirteen 12th and 13th together. I guess he was a Bishop of that for years and years.

FCW: Burt would take me there to dance there and I'll tell you....

CCW: did you like to dance really then?

FCW: I got the Sigma Chi House, you know we go to parties up there all the time.

CCW: Well, did you ever dance like in school or take classes of things never did Grandpa like to dance?

FCW: I loved it

CCW: really what kind of dances?

FCW: two steps.

FCW: We'd go on the train. What was that open-air train? The R train would go out to Saltair and then we take our lunch. I'd take a big lunch and we go out the whole family go out and have dinner out there and then we stay and dance and then we'd come home. And all I can remember is how thirsty I was!

CCW: when you say the whole family went out, whose family?

Denise: And you guys would go out there and who what kind of music would you hear?

FCW: Ballroom. There were two bands on each end. It was so big. It was really fun.

CRW: I think one thing we need to talk about is that Mother has provided half of the recipes in town. I think came from her because there are so many people in town didn't make her popcorn balls used to make and then her those popcorn balls are the best in the land; her fudge your chocolate fudge. I think half the people in town know how to make her fudge then her caramel's and our peanut brittle and that's what I remember the white with the black wrapped in tinfoil.

Denise; The way you always give it to take home.

CCW: and the 12 layer cake, isn't it 12 layers?

CRW: Yeah, she didn't cut the 12 layers after you make 12 layers and little paint thin layers and then Frost in between each one.

CCW: And then when I remember as a young kid the things you were doing here and over there, but especially on some of them now was quilting each year.

CRW: There's a different thing that she's into its now pillows. But, if you go around, you know, to all our relatives, all have something that she's made. But even when I was a little kid, she and her friends, were circled around these quilting boards on 7th and L. I think I ran into one at Holiday Park recently that you made for Adele when she got married. But they do that a lot and then something different each year. She's had a different handiwork.

FCW: Yeah each year, this year it's pillows.

CCW: What do you think of Women's Lib?

FCW: I don't know very much about it. I don't think that I hate to see women act like them because you think it's that's the natural way. I mean, that's the only way to go.

FCW: I don't know like cocktails have taken over a lot. You know. Oh, yeah cocktail parties and but oh the thing that's a change this where I live down on North Temple there to see that big building all the buildings that are gone up.

CCW: Well, what do you think the inventions, of, you know, the airplane? And all that has helped people or do you think we're about the same? But it just have more conveniences?

FCW: I think there are plans help people really think it's wonderful and telephone I guess when you grew up,

CCW: Was there telephone?

CCW: Was your first TV a small tube with a big box?

FCW: That's what I understood, yes.

CCW: Okay, what do you think, without trying to be modest, where did you can get your greatest talent? Your greatest gifts?

FCW: I don't know.

CCW: CCW: What's necessary to raise a family? What does a mother have to do?

FCW: Just give and give

FCW: Love yeah, love is main thing.

CCW: What happens is when you get tired changing diapers? Well, that's that's been so long long ago.

FCW: I can't remember.

CCW: I mean, what should somebody do when you're just tired of doing all the dumb things that go along with the family?

Stick to your guns. Yep, you have to

CCW: It looks delicious. I'd love a slice of peach.

FCW: Get me another dish what makes it what makes sewing. So well, it's just terrible curtains in my bathroom. Oh, yeah through material. Also you can serve. Yeah, and I took it off. It's in between and that's you see those things.

FCW: The wonderful was Grandpa very did he like to use things and not waste was he a guy who did not go waste never was in debt one bet. He just that's the one thing that he thought was the bad was very bad for anyone.

CCW: Where did you learn to become so creative Venture? That locks is natural talent, but did you do?

CCW: Oh, really? Is that right?

FCW: Absolutely?

CCW: What was it like?

FCW: Store wood floors and I mean I remember a long parts for the railing, you know just would thing and I remember it's as plain as I could because I'd go right through the block.

FCW: But you would take food. Thanks for the time. No, I would it was a store these are you kind of trade? Yeah. Yeah, I pay I think pay even if possibly timing and kind and that just don't fit. So I guess you go there and buy things that people had brought in after time maybe pay, you know, she'll pay maybe once a month or something like that. No need you haven't told much about Grandma Campbell and she was a great Temple workers for about Grandma can order life. I think how many years as long as I remembered it which wasn't a long time and I think she worked there a lot. This was one of the workers in teeth when I when I go in the template always makes me, you know think so much about mother. That's your mom 20 years.

CRW: As long as I can remember she was working was Grandma Campbell. Um, Also that you do a lot of cooking and graphs and stuff.

CCW: Oh really?

FCW: We have a green afghan that she crochet somewhere around here. Yes. She was great. I gave that to Susie. How do you figure that with other good Cooks around here?

CCW: In this family, how come all the men are so skinny because I know it wasn't for lack of food. That's for sure.

CRW: most important about of anything one of the most important things that should be mentioned in that is a mother has never been a respecter of people. She's never treated anybody differently because of their class or station or anything. She's always treated every person for their real true worth as a person and I think that's the greatest thing and she'll take her for cleaning ladies to the out of the club for lunch.

FCW: But really it's just polygamy my dearest friend. I just love her and you see her children went to school went to Sunday school until they were 8 and then they quit my one of them are bombed the church now. And but she the neighborhood sort of didn't you know just ostracized neighborhood parties at never invite her, you know,

CCW: oh really?

FCW: One of her little Sons came up here one day when I was here and knocked on doors and asking for candy or something and the kids do that. They'll knock on the door. No, she has candy, but he said she's the only she's the only person the treats me nice. But really he's a liar. She's got her degree here. She's passed the bar here. He passed the bar down in San Diego. Wow.

FCW: And she's smart as can be and she's a lovely person. You know, her husband is a So and so together wife and every city all the way up. Oh, no, she goes out of town.

CRW: One thing. That is fun. Is it for as long as I can remember mother has always put up breakfast for the garbage man. And so every week when a garbage man can't come they know they've got sweet rolls and juice and stuff here for them to eat out here on the bottom of the pedal so they just come and stop and so last year ago last Christmas these three Burly guys came up to the door and said to her we got something for you. And so this one big guy really guide and macaroni that plant over there.

FCW: And got it and he done it himself the garbage man and brought it there for a Christmas present that right.

FCW: Oh, yes my going to bring me some presents. Did he come in and just visit with yeah.

FCW: We have lots to be thankful for I tell you.

CCW: Sure

FCW: you don't. you forgive 'em

CCW: Sure

=================TAPE 1 END, Side 2========================================

FCW: You don't. You forgive them.

ESW: was this this little guy here kinda serious quiet boy

FCW:he was kinda sorta

CCW: kinda sort, what does that mean?

laughter

FCW: He was a joy always

laughter

ESW: i just kinda that feeling i can picture him as a little boy. doing the right thing. being so nice. working so hard. and so serious

FCW: Rex jr used to, they were very close.

FCW: yes

FCW: and he looked up to...and you know....

CRW: Al Hardy, a lot

FCW: yes, uh

FCW: we had this our bedroom it was a all on one floo you know there were two bedrooms at the back and then our bedroom. and sometimes we wouldn't get up so early. maid would get up and get the kids breakfast. we d stay in bed. then rex and jd would come right through the bedroom while we were in bed. Hi aunt florence. Hi uncle bert. how ya doing. they'd make the circle of our house.

laughter

CCW: how funny

FCW: they were just like my own children exactly there's no difference really

CRW: Rex lived with us for awhile. his mom was sick for awhile. she had asthma like my dad. and so rex would stay with us sometimes for several months. just live with us.

FCW:oh i love that Rex. He's just a wonderful personal .

CCW: isn't he?

CCW: same with JD

FCW: oh JD i love him. He s born on my birthday.

CCW: oh really? the same?

FCW: yes

FCW: but he is so sweet

FCW:that he comes for my birthday with a bouquet of flowers for me

FCW: he's cute

FCW: I just love him

ESW:oh were the two in your family. the two boys? There was one who died.

FCW: three boys.

DENISE:Nanny, what do you think if what do you think is some of Papa's best qualities? Grandpa?

FCW:whose?

CCW:Grandpa

FCW:oh, i don't know being honest i think.

CCW:what a great quality

FCW mm uh

FCW:he was so honest

FCW: and he always wanted to uh work for what he got

FCW: you bet he did

FCW: he and worked to, i tell ya

CCW: I get the feeling that was a terrific worker

FCW: mm-huh

FCW: he enjoyed doing something well

FCW: well, he made that business and took Dick in

FCW: you know and

FCW: when they were down in the Dooly building

CCW: yeah, I remember going up to see dad. I remember going up and asking him if he had any candy bars in his desk.

laughter

CRW: I used to keep a candy bar in there. I remember you coming

CRW: I remember one time. when you said....

CRW: about grandpa, about doing a job well, that was his trademark. anything if it was the tiniest thing. and he had to do he would do it well

FCW: perfection

CRW: if he was putting a screw in the cupboard it would go in perfectly or it wouldn't go in

CRW: he was always get things done. he wouldn't put things off

FCW: yeah

CRW: but he just said that, when he built this house, he said I want this house to be built to last. all of concrete and brick so that there was about the only house in salt lake that has concrete floors.

FCW: Pen type construction

FCW: like they do in office buildings

CCW: the interior walls are brick.

CRW: so you could try to hang a picture is solid brick

CCW: what coats it?

CRW: plaster

CCW: I see plaster

CRW: over the brick

CCW: is that right?

CRW: you don't stretch the muzzle on the plaster so that there a thin coating like a canvas.

CCW: well see maybe that's where i got because i have the same feeling about trying to do

CRW: i have noticed that about you. you do that same thing. you want to have this thing just right. and the gifts you've made for me you know those little

FCW: go look at the one on the mantel in there did you see it.

FCW: go get it. go get it. bring it in here.

FCW: he's made these things for Christmas.

ESW: how did they get the molding on there if that's all cement and plaster? How did they attach the molding.

CRW: i think it's a special ___to penetrate the brick . it's a wooden

CCW: funny thing

FCW: that a beautiful bouquet?

DENISE: that's very artistic

CCW: the flowers i think have been changed. is that right?

FCW: yes, i should put cuter flowers in

CCW: oh, i think they're cute. a little different

FCW: see just two holes there

FCW: that's so clever

FCW: isn't that cute?

FCW: cleverest little cute things

CCW: simplicity is the key to life

laughter

CCW: so uh

DENISE: did you ever get to watch grandpa and think....

CCW: oh, I don't think I really got to watch grandpa very much. I guess it's through dad and just through the genes.

CRW: Well, uh probably that grandpa uh at work, I look back at some of the things he s done. The books he's kept and they are absolutely meticulous. And his handwriting was perfect

CCW: Was it?

CRW: Absolutely perfect

CRW: You go and you look at the ledger sheets and you can see his just stand out and there neatness and there being right to the exact penny. and he dealt that way with the people we dealt with. that uh, he just wanted to have everything out on the table. you know this the way it is. you do this, we expect this and you'll do this. we expect this from you. he was extremely honest with his uh people he did business with

CCW: You know when they were down in the Dooley building, yeah, I remember going up to see Dad. I remember going up and asking them if you had any candy bars in his desk.

FCW: He would be upset when the Kinwanni boiler comp;any they made so mujch money for them that the company here that they brought in their own men and took it away from them

FCW: mmm

FCW: that's what happened to all the, a lot of 'em

CRW: felt bad. felt it was unfair to do a good a job. then you lose it.

CCW: I remmber cuz we had the kiwani building

FCW: that doesn't seem right to me

ESW: no

FCW: Fisher that did too

CRW: part of being a manufacturer representative you have to expect that

FCW: we used to go back to the conventions, always. you know back in kiwanni boiler company and all those places. Chicago. we go to Chicago to conventions it was fun.

CCW: now you went to Europe also. Didn't you? When dad got off his mission?

CRW:we met him, yeah.

CCW:did you enjoy traveling? did you travel much?

FCW:we had a great time. but when we were in Paris it was really funny he was playing golf with some with a friend he just met. and uh, he was playing golf and that's clayt he was playing golf and he pinched his foot somehow and caused an infecxgtion in his foot. and so when we got to paris he went int he hospital. and bert had a bladder infection. and he went in the hospital and i was in i was up in Sacrifice church in a little apratment up there for a whole week alone. I had a ball!

CCW:is that right?

laughter

FCW:oh, i had fun

ESW: that's where all the artists go, isn't it?

FCW: yeah sure. they sit alone the banks and paint. and it was fun. I just loved it. I'd take trip to the hospital every day. but, you know,

CCW: you'd say hi then go see the city.

CCW: I just say hi and I'd go on all the you know the museums and all the everything it was such an opportunity

CCW: what'd you think of the Sacracur, the church

FCW: well, I'd I din't think much of it. it wasn't much. it was on a beautiful location

CCW: oh, it was my favorite church. It wasn't quite as maybe, yeah, it was a little simpler. When i was there, there two arches, kinda, and you are look from the doors back there's I forgotten the name for it. There the cove. Like a Nave, kinda. But then, there a set of pillars. then there's another outter. So you can walk around the place where they do the stuff. The light was coming the windows. I just fell in love with that church.

FCW: I can't remember

FCW: but it's the location that i thought was so lovely

FCW: oh yes. Gorgeous on top of the hill there. beautiful location. i loved it.

CCW: so you saw

FCW: then we stayed at the

FCW: what hotel did we stay at in Rome?

CRW: Excellseur

CRW: Excellesur hotel in Rome and someone gave me a big pan nuts salted nuts and i left 'em in the we had some company come in and I passed some nuts i left 'em on the table. and when we got up the ants were just loaded they were in the nuts? Oh!

CCW: oh no!

FCW: that lovely hotel

laughter

CRW: well they had planned to take the boat over and meet me in I can't remember which city, we planned to meet, then they had some problems with the boat, couldn't get on it. So they flew across the ocean which was one of the early days of flying across the ocean. And it was quite a traumatic thing for mother to fly across the ocean. They finally met me in Naples.

CRW: I came down from Norway and met them in naples

FCW: But we had the greatest trip it was just absolutely fabulous

FCW: We were on this train, and all the people, everyone was singing. I was singing. Remember how we took the boat out to the Isle of Capri? That's when yeah, I remember the scene a little, but they're great people. Remember Clayton?

CRW: we took the boat out, I remember the singing now.

FCW: they're great people. The Italians were singing. you know. Because it's just a bus and they'd all be singing

CCW: oh really?

FCW: mmm huh

FCW: It was interesting to know they were so happy

FCW: They yeah, they are festive

CCW: you took the boat back though?

CRW: yes we took the Queen Mary back

FCW: mmm huh

FCW: and Clayton fell in love with a girl

FCW: on the Queen Mary

CRW: I didn't really

CRW: there was a girl scout leader that we taught the songs and have fun, i know.

CRW: I didn't fall in love, we shouldn't put that on record

CCW: He did not fall in love.

laughter

FCW: Well that's so fun being able to travel that's so fun to know other countries

FCW: You danced a lot with her, i know

ESW: I didn't think missionaries could that

CRW: I don't think we danced

FCW:didn't you dance, i thought you did

CRW: we learned that lemmy sticks.

FCW: oh that lemmy sticks.

CCW: Is that a Norwegian thing thing dad?

CRW: it's a Polynesian thing. and this girl and been the girl scout leader and taught that at camp. and that's where I learned that

CCW: we had those lemmies

FCW: a little bigger, don't you think Denise?

FCW: I think

FCW: when we brought Clayton home from his mission we went up to Lozaone. So Bert wanted to, uh, my family are Baliff's. And they are from Lozonne Switzerland. So he uh, called 2 or 3 people BY the name of Baliff to find some relatives. So that they could come and meet with us at the hotel and be introduced to us

FCW: and these people 3 people came. And one was fat and big and he looked like he was a beer drinker. He was red faced. They talk so fast. Bert was so mad. Because he, you know, they talked so fast, that he couldn't get a lot that they said. French.

CCW: Did he know some German?

CRW: this was the French part of Switzerland

CCW: okay, oh yeah.

FCW: but he uh would was so mad, Xcvoiowefrhnva, I can't understand what they are saying.

FCW: so the meeting wasn't too successful nobody could understand each other. we at least saw some Baliffs

CCW: that's interesting

FCW: we saw this city from which a lot of the Baliff's came. It was Lazonne Switzerland and uh mother's grandfather came from there.

CRW: mother's father came from Lazone switzerland

CCW: was he, did he, come over when he was younger? but your grandfather?

CRW: He came over for the church. They were married. And he came

FCW: he was converted over there

FCW:but he had already he had married. he was older?

FCW: yes, he was married. brought his wife over

FCW: when they came form they landed in salt lake and Brigham young sent them down to sugarhouse. and they went to sugarhouse had a little place down there. and then he Brigham young, ordered 'em to go to go up to Logan, to make there home in logan. so uh, they did. they dug a hole in their backyard where they put all their silver in it. and they came back and got it. everything was the same way they left. they buried it

CCW: oh is that right?

FCW: uh huh

FCW: beautiful silver

FCW: heavy, heavy silver

FCW: yeah

FCW: but uh, grandmother was very wealthy. she had her maid. she took her maid with her.

FCW: mmm

FCW: when uh Brigham, the chuch said polygamy should be. he married her.

CCW: ahhh

FCW: mother said it just killed her mother. she said she was never the same after

CCW: is that right?

FCW: just killed her

CCW: that must have been what a test.

FCW: yeah, yeah....

CCW:what does that say?

CRW: this tray says, "presented to RS Campbell" that's mother's father and I think it was something to do with gratituous service

FCW: Gratuitous Services. It says on it

CCW: to the what?

FCW: Utah Power and Light

FCW: when he was

CCW: it's a beautiful tray

CCW: does it go right with that table?

FCW: no, I had the table made.

CCW: oh, how neat

FCW: It's a beautiful thing

FCW: really

CCW: that's wonderful

FCW: I don't know how Bert stood for my extravagance.

CCW: oh really?

CCW: were you extravagant?

FCW: I'll say i was, absolutely

CCW: like in what way?

FCW: well, lots of ways. I had to these fish plates here.

CCW: now that is extravagant, i agree

FCW: I saw them down at Lois Greenwoods. No, no it was Mrs. Buhorns. Before Felt Buhorn. She had her home shop. She had these. And I don't know how much they were but they were terribly expensive because they are all hand done.

CCW: oh yes.

CRW: You have to tell 'em about your Sewing club

CRW: Oh and your Bridge club. Those are fun, even with me!

CCW: Really

CRW: Is that on?

FCW: Yes, it's going

FCW: Well we have a sewing club and when we Adele was just first married, she was been quite awhile and Eva Whitney, the four of us met with our children. She had two dollars and I had a idea. And we met and we would sew. She had two daughters. And I had Adele. We met and we would sew. And just went on. And we now there are 14 members. And we've done it, how many years? I don't know. we meet every other Tuesday

FCW: and

CCW: really?

FCW: bring their sewing

DENISE: here?

CRW: No, not here. They go to each ones home

CCW: and rotate

FCW: And take our sewing and make things and

CCW: How fun! like how many years is that?

FCW: oh that's years.

FCW: 20 years? When adele was married. This one was. That's 20 years when Adele was married this one. Well Mary Godbe Gibbs, Sarah Martin....

FCW: And we've met for 900 years.

CRW: I think they've met know they met since Adele was a one-year-old every Wednesday.

FCW: I took Adele in my arms. Never missed Wednesday.

CRW: That's 65 years that they've met. And this group and a lot of them have died. There are four of the founders remaining right now. That gets every Wednesday for 65 years. And in the early days, they played Bridge. You know, you still play Bridge or what sometimes sometimes you do good. You have been forced to added others. So there are eight of them now, but as long as you're bridging improved....And, in the early days they played bridge.

CCW: And now do you still play bridge?

FCW: Sometimes, sometimes we do

CCW: has your bridge improved?

laughter

FCW: Yeah, for the Sewing Club, Adele was married

CRW: This would be like 30 or 40 years.

FCW: And then there's the Wednesday we played Bridge for years and years and years.

CCW: And who is in that?

FCW: Well, um, Hellen Williams, Edna Felt, and uh, Mary Godby Gibbs, Sara Moreton, and we've met for 900 years, I think.

CRW: They've met since Adele was a one year old. Every Wednesday.

FCW: I'd hold Adele in my arms.

CCW: Never missed a Wednesday?

FCW: Never. It meets every Wednesday. And, I took Adele in my arms, as a tiny baby.

CCW: Is that right? So that's about 65 years.

CCW: How fun though, I can't imagine doing that.

CRW: Imagine being friends for that long and meeting faithfully every week

FCW: Every week you really get to know somebody. We certainly do, we know everything about each other

CCW: when the children grew up....does Adele come to the Wednesday club?

FCW: No, She just comes to the Tuesday. She's a member of the Tuesday club

CCW: What's the Tuesday club

FCW: that's the sewing club. I take pillows!

CCW: How fun!

FCW: You really get to know somebody.

CRW: And then this this Wednesday club, which there are eight of them were the dearest friends. They would do things socially this would be like a dead man uncle Ted Uncle Rex and Aunt Helen and these people that play bridge their husbands would be involved. So when they do things socially they would be their closest friends.

FCW: Yeah, is social friends. We've had a wonderful life. I have had, really.

CCW: that's so wonderful

FCW: yeap

CCW: you've made the most of it, it sounds like

FCW: yeah I have

CRW: she didn't let any grass grow under her feet. I think she's alwasy kept busy. She said about a year ago, that she's going to die standing up!

laughter

FCW: well I am I'm not going to bed!

CRW: she's had her hip operated on at 83! and put a new plastic hip in her at 83, which is prety good

FCW: yeah, I have had three.

CRW: she's almost 87 now. She had every operation known to man

FCW: I've got a herna right there but they couldn't operate cuz there wasn't a place--too many scars.

CRW: a year and a half ago, I came up one day and she was very sick. And, I rushed her over to the hospital. They took into emergency. They studied her. and they said, "She has a blocked intestine and we're going have race her into the operating room."

CRW: and operate. Sse was uh 85 at the time. And so raced operated for oh until about 3 am we waited for the doctor to come out of the operating room I think they had her in there 4 hours. And uh, at 3 in the morning. He said to Adele, "I think it's 50-50 chance that she'll make it."

FCW: mmm

CRW: we waited and she came out.

Elaine: didn't know you did that

CRW: and then uh, a month to the day following the operation I took her to New York to celebrate Thanksgiving with Adele.

CRW: so that shows you the tenancity

CCW: wow

CRW: of the way she can hang on

CCW: well just to finish up, we just wanted to ask you one more question. That is, if you had any advice to give to your posterity or um you know something that has made a big difference in your life or some kind of key to happiness or something that has enriched your life. What would you tell your kids or grandkids?

FCW: just love each other. love. love is the base of everything.

CCW: k

FCW: yep, it really is

DENISE:: she certainly been a good example of that, hasn't she?

CCW: it's certainly true.

FCW: I'll say it is: action is worth a thousand words

laughter

CCW: okay, well thanks Nanny

FCW: don't mention it Clayt

CCW: We're really excited.

Denise: We really appreciate everything that you've been to us. We'll just treasure this. Neat to have our kids and their kids listen to it and get a feeling of what their Nanny is like.

FCW: Well, that's great

CCW: and you know, we're going to make a copy for all our brothers and sisters.

FCW: Oh wonderful

CCW: and so, everyone will get to share it

FCW: oOh great.

FCW: Get in there and sing something

CCW: all right

laughter